Inviting Joan M Wheeler/Doris M Sippel to a point-counter-point discussion on Facebook.

Here’s your chance Joan/Doris! Come, discuss your issues with those of us that you hate so much.

Here’s my invite to you

For no particular reason, just a while ago, I checked Joan/Doris’s web page and found an interesting item! A long rant about and to a Jennifer Marsh who left a PM on Joan/Doris’s FB account related to Jeremy and Jenny adopting! Boy! nothing sets Joan/Doris off more than someone ANYONE telling her that they have a different opinion from her!

I INVITE Jennifer Marsh to PM me here on this FACEBOOK PAGE that is dedicated to the words and works of Joan M Wheeler/Doris M Sippel. If anyone, out there, knows Jennifer, please relay this message to her. I also WELCOME Jennifer to post PUBLICALLY wants she wishes to tell Joan/Doris.

I ALSO INVITE Joan/Doris to a point-counter-point on THIS FACEBOOK PAGE. This page is FOR THE DISSECTION OF JOAN/DORIS’ WORDS. So by all means let the AUTHOR speak here! If she DARES to address those that she has maligned and lied about!

Here’s the link to Joan/Doris’ latest rant…

https://forbiddenfamily.com/2017/09/09/private-message-from-jennifer-marsh-about-jeremy-and-jenny-advertising-to-adopt-in-yard-sales-and-trades/

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‘I understand people’s need for privacy.’ Says Joan M Wheeler/Doris M Sippel.

 

Unfortunately that is FALSE! She is a liar, incapable of telling the truth about her families. Joan hasn’t a clue about anyone’s privacy, for she doesn’t care about others. It’s all about HER and HER privacy, while she fabricates lives about family members, for others, to promote her political agenda against adoption.

On a Facebook group page, Adoption Sucks, on July 10, 2017, someone asked a question; Is there anyone else on here who has a diagnosed mental illness?

The Facebook page’s link is…  https://www.facebook.com/groups/10484382277/

Now this particular Facebook page is a PUBLIC PAGE. Anyone who writes anything, on any public social media site or on a blog or a comment, anywhere, CANNOT expect privacy. Their postings, comments, likes etc. are OUT THERE for PUBLIC viewings. And of course the same goes for any printed book or e-book and as such is ALWAYS subject to PUBLIC scrutiny and discourse. I myself have two public blogs and one public Facebook page dedicated to the words and works of Joan/Doris. I also have the public right to comment, review and have discussions on Amazon, or any other company, on ANY item they publish and/or sell.

So of course, there were comments on the thread… ‘Is there anyone else on here who has a diagnosed mental illness?’ Joan/Doris said some things that went beyond inappropriateness, violating OUR FAMILY’S privacy. Ruth commented.

Ruth wrote a blog about the ‘fallout’. It can be found here…

https://ruthsippelpace.wordpress.com/2017/07/30/doris-michol-sippel-fka-joan-mary-wheeler-engages-in-an-unprovoked-attack-on-me-and-my-family-on-the-facebook-page-adoption-sucks-what-a-nice-grown-up-name-there/

This post of mine will address more specific points. I will be adding my own observations about the comments after each appears here, in this post, as Gert observes…

Please take NOTE of the times of when Daryl Bergmann posted on Doris Michol Sippel’s comment and when he commented/posted on Ruth’s comment…seems to be some special treatment given to Joan/Doris!

2017 Leslie Dann July 10 at 3:26pm

Is there anyone else on here who has a diagnosed mental illness? I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder at age 19 after I went manic and saw hallucinations. I have been taking my medication for years, faithfully, but this past year I have been hospitalized three times for depression. I don’t know why except there are external factors, such as no support system and a job I’m just doing to get my pension. I told bfather about how I hadn’t been doing so well lately and he hasn’t answered my email. I think if you admit to being unhappy (even if you have a mental illness) they just don’t want to hear it. It upsets their adoption apple cart. Anyone else I would have told that to would have said that they were there to talk or reach out to. Bfather: silence. More disappointment.

Gert observes…

Adoptees are NOT the only people that get NOTHING from family or friends. All I see here is just another self-pity party. I have had many down times in my life, had my cries, and then I got up and just went on. NO I do NOT have any kind of mental illness! And I’ve been fairly healthy all my life. So I’m very GRATEFUL for my life! Personally, I find the over use of social media to self-diagnosis and medicate and have pity-parties rather useless, but hey that’s just me!

Doris Michol Sippel I have C-PTSD, depression, anxiety. My adoptive mother had several diagnosed mental illnesses for which I was treated in order to learn how to cope with her behavior. My adoptive father was her enabler. The rest of my adoptive father’s family (not all, thank goodness) all piled on the band wagon to emotionally abuse me after my reunion, so gang mentality increased my fear, anxiety, PTSD from their attacks. My natural blood family have undiagnosed mental illness, their attacks upon me are also responsible for my C-PTSD. July 16 at 7:59am

Gert observes…

Well, she is narcissistic and therefore cannot help herself…it’s all about her! Joan/Doris’s mental illness mostly likely came from the DRUG that mother was taking during the pregnancy to ‘hold’ the fetus, that and her premature birth…so yes she was damaged in the womb, coupled with, LEARNED BEHAVIORS from the adoptive family and the abuse she suffered from someone in that family. Life can be a bitch! And reading too many book etc. can create things in our minds that are not really there…we all make own forms of hell!

Joan/Doris does NOT have any evidence for her claim that the birth family had any kind of mental illnesses; diagnosed or un-diagnosed. To state this is yet another one of her lies and fabrications to justify her version of how she was treated by ANYONE. She has been telling lies and fabrications all over the Internet and in PRINT for decades. To ‘sue’ her would be useless, that is why we have blogs to counter her lies.

NO ONE in the birth family even attacked her! YES, she was argued with, yelled at, told to shut up, get lost, was KICKED out of several birth families’ homes, including at least 5 times by father BEFORE she got the hint and stopped; that’s why she wrote the book in the first place, to get even for some perceived harms. But, no one even attacked her, in any way. She is her own worst enemy! She never takes RESPONSIBILITY for any of her own words or deeds.

Just because she claims a ‘thing’ doesn’t mean it happened! She has claimed many absurdities and none are true! She NEVER thought that the birth siblings would counter her book! She didn’t count on the reality of pay-back from those she maligned. She would NEVER have heard from me again once I divorced her in 1980, but NO, she had to…write and published a book, a lying book, in 2009. Since that time birth siblings have been and will continue to expose her words and deeds…that is NOT attacking its KARMA BABY.

Daryl Bergmann I note that you have identified no members of your natural blood family by name nor stated which side may suffer, maternal or paternal.  😉 Not asking, only making an observation.  · July 17 at 1:32am

Gert observes…

NOTE the time of this comment of Daryl’s (July 17 @ 1:32 pm). He placed that comment AFTER he was alerted to Ruth’s comment and after Joan/Doris’s ‘comeback’ of July 17 at 12:05am

Beyond that, EVERYONE knows who Joan/Doris’s birth family members are, for SHE publicly NAMED us years ago! So Daryl if you are making an observation, perhaps the clue you MISSED was the NAMES!

As Ruth said, in other places, Joan/Doris… promotes her ‘adoption’ with ‘a picture of her two dead birth parents as her personal mascots’! Those two parents are OURS! Joan/Doris OUTED us decades ago and continues to use our parents as PERSONAL MASCOTS!

BTW…just because someone CAN sue doesn’t mean that they CAN! Joan/Doris doesn’t have a cent to her name, nothing of $$$ value to get from a law-suit, and she doesn’t have the $$$ to sue anyone…so the point is mute. She said, we said! She writes a book or two or three, we have a blog or two or three. Our READERSHIP far exceeds her sales and readership of her books. NO author in mainstream adoption reform PROMOTES her works or gets her at conferences and there’s no movie producer looking to make a movie out of her book/life; clue here…that was her BIGGEST dream, to have a movie made of her life… oh excuse me…OUR LIVES!

Daryl Bergmann Yeah. Doris doesn’t mention a name. Then boom, immediately on the defense to deny any form of mental illness pops up Ruth with a prepared novel for that exact purpose. Says a lot. Far more than intended. Adoption really does suck.  · July 16 at 3:50pm

Gert observes…

As I just said, what everyone seems to FORGET is that Doris doesn’t have to MENTION a name, for she has been spreading falsehoods about birth family members for years and she wrote THREE books about us! Ruth, or anyone else, has the RIGHT to confront the statements said about her and her family, as do I! Just as the Facebook page Adoption Sucks has its own opinions on the subject of adoption, OTHERS have their own opinions and rights to object to falsehoods, whether Daryl or others object. Yes of course, he has the right to monitor the page etc. but that doesn’t give him any position to lessen or DEMEAN Ruth’s opinions or position.

Let’s remember that Joan/Doris has her own ‘prepared novel for that exact purpose’ and she uses it every time she goes to pro-adoption sites or adoptive parent sites or any place that she opposes. If Joan can do it, so can Ruth! Remember public viewings are subject to public opinions and sharing…Deal with it!

Ruth Herr Sippel Pace I am Ruth Sippel Pace – birth sister of Doris Michol Sippel – I do not have any mental illness. I recently retired from a 43 year career as a Patient Care Assistant at a large metropolitan general hospital. During those 43 years, I worked on several me…See More  July 16 at 1:49pm

Gert observes…

Remember to see Ruth’s blog post (link above) for the full text of the thread. There was NOTHING wrong with Ruth identifying herself while coming forth and putting truth to a malicious lie! It seems to me that hate-filled adoptees DO NOT want to see the damage that they do to family members. Double standards here!

Doris Michol Sippel In case you all are wondering where I’ve been…I’ve been quietly living my life today. Breakfast, laundry, church, lunch with a friend, grocery shopping, answered long distance phone call, prepared for work tomorrow, went to an outdoor concert, came back to this. Yes, I long ago blocked Ruthie and Gert so I cannot see their comments. All I see are the words of others talking to Ruth. Imagine being found at age 18 in 1974 by these weird women! I was in my senior year of high school, got enmeshed in their problems, got swept up in everyone’s anger at me, so I lashed back, until I sought therapy. I still cannot understand why we all have made it clear many decades ago that we want nothing to do with each other – and they still hunt me down. I do nothing to them.They attack other adoptees. …Ruth is 63 or 64, Gert is 70. I am 61. You see the content of my writing. Who has mental illness? Who admits to struggling? Me. As Daryl Bergmann said, NOT ME. Who is in denial?   · July 17 at 12:05am

Gert observes…

Oh yes we were wondering, so how very nice of her to show us all her ‘normal everyday life’! Typical technique of hers, the birth family knows them all too well, as do those that she has doubled crossed. Yes, this is how Joan/Doris continues with her unique brand of demonizing those that ‘found’ her as she spins her tale of being just a normal gal.

Right, her sisters are ‘weird women’. She ‘got enmeshed in their problems, got swept up in everyone’s anger at me, so I lashed back, until I sought therapy’! Wow! Isn’t that terrible? We four siblings and then father, only FOUND her so we could manipulate her into our problems! Right, sure, tell me another fairy tale! And OUR anger swept up and gathered Joan/Doris into a whirlwind that she HAD to lash back at! Yep, right, ok! wink, wink, So thanks for clarify that for me as I wasn’t paying any attention to HER seeing that SHE violated my privacy and my children’s etc.!

And therapy? She was in it BEFORE we knew her! She’s been in it for her ENTIRE LIFE! That’s a sure sign of mentally illness that is NOT controlled. She uses her conditions to promote her negative agenda against adoption…but hey go have your fun!

She may have blocked us long ago, but she still READS our blogs and adjusts what she says and prints accordingly. I know for I’ve dissected her writing now and see those changes with EACH version of that lying book of hers and various things she blogs about! She even imitates our choices of words and phrases. BUT unless a person makes Joan/Doris a subject to watch you would NOT know that!

We don’t have anything to do with her! I haven’t seen her since 1992! We just tell the truth to her lies! That is what she can’t stop! Hunt her down!!?? There’s a mental illness speaking here! We don’t attack other adoptees! We do comment to and about adoptees just like millions of other people do.

Joan/Doris is SO INTO numbers, dates, ages, years of this that and the other thing. Is there something special here I’m missing? Oh yeah…she’s been at this a long time, so she knows what she’s talking about…wait I have to vomit!

Ruth and I are NOT denying a thing! We are NOT mentally ill, no one in our family has been, except JOAN/DORIS and I already told HOW that happened.

If Ruth can hold a job for 43 years and I could hold a job for 37 years how did we MANAGE that if we were mentally ill?? (btw I RETIRED EARLY so if I had worked till 65 I would have had 43 years as well…but I took a pension early!)

Joan/Doris had NEVER HELD a job long, is on disability because of her mental illness. Whom would you believe?

Daryl Bergmann She wasn’t even named, and she posts a diatribe demanding the “slanderous and libelous” post (slander is a verbal spoken statement made with one’s mouth and vocal cords – hard to do that in a typed post) be removed. As she was not identified in any way, there is no libel either. This administrator will be leaving all ‘evidence’ as is.   July 17 at 1:08am

Gert observes…

Let it be known that Joan/Doris herself has claimed that she has been victimized by ‘slanderous and libelous’ posts by her birth siblings. EVERYONE knows the different between the two words, Daryl. Obviously you NEEDED something to contribute to throw at Ruth! Daryl would do WELL to read everything that Joan/Doris has written to LEARN about her. Then, read the ‘other side of things’, our blogs, comments and reviews, to LEARN the truth. But you are not interested in that…of course.

As I’ve stated several times here, Joan/Doris USES our family name, she has identified us EVERY WHERE. It is common knowledge to hateful and angry adoptees whom are her siblings. If YOU didn’t know that that just shows your ignorance of Joan/Doris. We are GLAD that you have kept the ‘evidence’ for that makes it and keeps it in that PUBLIC SPACE that is available to all, not just adoptees. If you think that there are none that find these comments offensive then you really don’t know all your viewers and certainly not mine!

Doris Michol Sippel Can anyone copy and paste all comments, including Ruth’s comments, in a Word doc and email the whole thread to me? dorismicholsippel@gmail.com … Thank you. July 17 at 12:07am

Gert observes…

If Joan/Doris doesn’t want anything to do with us, then WHY does she want a copy of what Ruth said here? Why, because she believes that she is UNDER ATTACK and it’s her ‘evidence’. Joan has no concept that it is she who has VIOLATED the birth family’s PRIVACY, not only here, but everywhere! Whenever Joan/Doris speaks about her birth family she violates their privacy! She does it to her adoptive family as well. Joan doesn’t GET IT that she is ATTACKING us when she negates our positions and opinions, when she resorts to name-calling and with her volumes of lies and fabrications. She cannot accept that we will COUNTER her lies! So did everyone get Joan/Doris’s email address?? She made it PUBLIC!

Laurel Jenkins-Crowe I hope it’s OK for me to put in that I for one would like to know what would be done with that document. Could it be anonymized?   July 17 at 7:48am

Gert observes…

And why is this person CONCERNED? Is she worried that she will be named? Well…yes she is being named…I expose all those that give support to Joan/Doris’s attacks upon me and family.

Doris Michol Sippel I’d like a full account of what Ruth wrote. Yes, it could be anonymized. And, someone already copied it for me. Thank you. I’m sorry my adoption peeps have to see this harassment. I don’t see why my life is such an obsession with Ruth and Gert. · July 17 at 5:38pm

Gert observes…

Harassment??!!! Yep that what she thinks opposing opinions are! Anyone who continues to put TRUTH to Joan/Doris’s lies is harassing her!

I don’t see why my life is such an obsession with Ruth and Gert.’ Joan/Doris your life is NOT an obsession with us…we don’t give one THOUGHT about your life! Your life means NOTHING to us! What we do CARE ABOUT is your constant violation of our privacy and your continued lying and fabricating. We also CARE ABOUT you USING, EXPOSING AND EXPLOITING our PARENTS!

Laurel Jenkins-Crowe Thank you! I’m glad the request wasn’t offensive.  July 17 at 6:09pm

Gert observes…

Why would this person think her request was offensive? Perhaps she has a bit of a conscious? Like, perhaps maybe Joan/Doris is in the WRONG to be asking for a copy of comment by a person that she has BANNED AND BLOCKED. If Joan/Doris wants to see what Ruth or Gert has to say, perhaps she ought to come out from under that rock and face us like a woman and not some cheap cheat!

Doris Michol Sippel Laurel Jenkins-Crowe Not at all. I understand people’s need for privacy. July 18 at 8:27am

Gert observes…

Two faced forked tongue that Joan/Doris is! Anyone can see that by her request for a copy of a person’s comment, which she blocked, that Joan/Doris is a coward! And then hides behind false virtue!

Unlike mentally ill people, who take meds and/or are in therapy, can’t hold down a job, can’t accept their life, and can’t accept opposing opinions or those that don’t agree with them…SANE, rational people see the truth, reality, are NOT afraid of voicing their objections to their privacy being violated, exposed and exploited for some pet project of the mentally ill individual and friends. Joan/Doris does not get a ‘free get out of jail’ card because she admits she is mentally ill. She gets the distinction of NON-credibility!

end

Ruth

she should finish that sentence thusly: “I understand people’s need for privacy, except my birth sisters – or my entire birth family, Or my adopted family – or my ex-husband, or anybody (including angry adoptees) who pissed me off in my life — I will plaster their names and lie about them all over my libelous book and the internet.

2 of 2; Op-ed article, by Joan M Wheeler/Doris M Sippel, gets insider attention from Gert McQueen! Part two of two.

There’s always another side of any story!

see part one here…https://gertmcqueen2.wordpress.com/2017/07/23/1-of-2-op-ed-article-by-joan-m-wheelerdoris-m-sippel-gets-insider-attention-from-gert-mcqueen-part-one-of-two/

Behind the scenes comments of Joan M Wheeler/Doris M Sippel

Here, in this part two post, you will find a series of PUBLIC comments from, two different PUBLIC Facebook accounts, where Joan/Doris shared a link about her Buffalo News article. She then asked her friends to comment, on the News article and to ‘educate the public’, for the News EDITED her piece and omitted keys points! She then had continued discussions, in a public forum, about the on-going (real time) placement of comments, on the News article, as well as telling falsehoods about me and family. So much for MY AND MY FAMILY’S PRIVACY! This is WHY I objected to and wrote my comments on the News article, in the first place, for Joan/Doris uses her position to exploit my family via her untruthful book!

I will be discussing many of these comments at end of the presentation of these comments.

DISCLAIMER…Whenever one writes a public article, on any Internet site, and/or comments on a public article, or writes a comment on a PUBLIC Facebook account that is plainly labeled as a PUBLIC post, there is NO EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY. That being said, the commentators on this, on line Buffalo News story, have given their ‘right’ to privacy away and publishing their names here, on a public blog, is PART and PARCEL of the News story.

http://buffalonews.com/2017/07/14/another-voice-cuomo-must-veto-flawed-adoptee-bill/

“Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself.”

― Native American Proverb

Here is her strand that she has been weaving…

Doris Michol Sippel shared a link to the group: ALARM – Advocating Legislation for the Adoption Reform MovementJuly 15 at 8:58am

My article helping New York State adoptees published! The Buffalo News edited it, omitting keys points. Please add your comments in the Comment Section! Educate the public!

Kimberly S. Worden-Poledna Commented. Only hope people actually read it.  July 15 at 10:18am

Doris Michol Sippel Thank you! Your comment hasn’t shown up yet. At least I cannot see it. July 15 at 10:30am

Kimberly S. Worden-Poledna Weird, when i commented there was one there then mine. Some one must be deleting them.  July 15 at 12:35pm

Doris Michol Sippel Kimberly S. Worden-Poledna No, it’s there. Website didn’t update, but did later.  July 15 at 3:46pm

Kimberly S. Worden-Poledna I wrote about the 14th amendment equal protection clause. July 15 at 12:36pm

Kimberly S. Worden-Poledna Weird cause i have notifications that people replied, liked my comment but when i go back there, i see no comments. Maybe you need a subcription to the newspaper ?  July 15 at 3:24pm

Doris Michol Sippel Kimberly S. Worden-Poledna I don’t know. I answered your comment. I can send you what I have saved on a Word Document, if you like. And, I don’t know if there are other comments because I blocked my 2 evil sisters so I don’t know if they commented. I think if you blocked someone, their comments will not show up for you.  July 15 at 3:49pm

Natalie Rose Yes I see it   July 15 at 10:44pm

Paul Bourke Andrew Cuomo: typical liberal hypocrite…  July 15 at 3:20pm

Gaye Sherman Tannenbaum I think I pissed someone off.  July 15 at 5:17pm

Doris Michol Sippel Why Gaye Sherman Tannenbaum? I don’t see your comments?  July 15 at 6:11pm

Doris Michol Sippel What did you say? You mean, there are other comments on there? If so, can someone send me screen shots? July 15 at 6:13pm

Gaye Sherman Tannenbaum Currently nine comments. July 15 at 6:52pm

Gaye Sherman Tannenbaum Can you see the replies to comments from people you’ve blocked? You can’t see G’s comment because you blocked her but what about people who reply to her? July 15 at 6:55pm

Doris Michol Sippel Gaye Sherman Tannenbaum Nope. Nothing. I can only see comments not in her her thread by people who are not blocked. Thank you, for whatever you said! If you can copy and paste on a word doc and send it to me, I’d appreciate it.  July 15 at 10:02pm

Natalie Rose Gert McQueen – seems to be a bio fam member of authour  July 15 at 10:45pm

Doris Michol Sippel Natalie Rose Gert is my eldest sister who found me in 1974. I have been hunted down, harassed, abused sexually and my life threatened, all because Gert and my other sisters feel that I am wrong to be anti-adoption.I have absolutely nothing to do with these women (Ruth is the other one) and have not been in contact for over 35 years. They insert themselves into everything I do online. By what is written on that thread ( someone sent me a copy because I blocked them) I can tell you that my sisters have ruined my life. They have 6 blogs dedicated to libel and slander of me. They did horrible things to me in our reunion. I wrote a memoir, not just about them, but me, my life, my adoptive homelife, my journey, my activism since 1974. Take some time and take a look at my website and judge for yourself. www.forbiddenfamily.com … then ask, who is the sane person? Me or gert? My adoptive mother was afraid of my sisters. I am afraid of them. I cannot stop them, either. FORBIDDEN FAMILY Promoting Adoptee Identity Civil Rights Since 1974 FORBIDDENFAMILY.COM   July 15 at 10:52pm

Doris Michol Sippel Obviously, the older, non-adopted sister (Gert) has to tell the younger, adopted-out sister (me), how to behave. Sorry she dragged into other adoptees, too. July 15 at 11:04pm

Natalie Rose Oh Doris, I’m so sorry. I pass no judgement on you! I couldn’t read their comments due to being cruel and obviously vindictive.  I will absolutely read your website. I look forward to learning from you and all who’ve been working so hard against this machine.  July 15 at 11:04pm

Natalie Rose I’m not an adoptee. I’m a first mother.

Doris Michol Sippel Natalie Rose Thank you for understanding. yes, I’ve been at this a very long time. yes, I do posses my OBC, but I do not have the legal right to obtain a copy of it. Gert does not know what she is talking about…if she starts talking about how I interfered in her adoption of her son: this is the real truth: she had a boy and a girl. Her 2nd husband wanted to adopt the 15 year old boy. I said in 1980 that his birth certificate would be changed. They got mad at me and threw me out of their apartment. She is not a birthmother. She is not a foster mother. She is not an adoptive mother, but she will say she is. Twist things to get her way… I’m glad you see how she is. And I do not think I have ever exploited my two families. the book was vetted by an attorney before publication. I have never been sued for libel.    July 15 at 11:11pm

Doris Michol Sippel Natalie Rose I hope you find peace in your journey as a first mother. July 15 at 11:12pm

Natalie Rose Doris Michol Sippel thank you. I’m feeling ready to place my anger into action. If you have any advice or recommend any contacts, please pm me. I’ve been reading a lot of studies and really want to make agencies provide full disclosure to future expectant mothers. July 15 at 11:16pm

Doris Michol Sippel Natalie Rose Yes, let me sleep on this. There are several moms I can send you to. Of course, there is Sandy MusserLee CampbellMirah Riben AuthorJo Swanson, and these are the pioneers! I’m a bit sleepy so not calling up names … Claudia Corrigan D’Arcy also has a great history and involvement in the movement. All of these moms are on facebook and have blogs, or news columns, or have written books. July 15 at 11:21pm

Natalie Rose Doris Michol Sippel thank you! Yes I recognize some of these women July 15 at 11:23pm

Doris Michol Sippel Natalie Rose Sleep time for me now! Goodnight!   July 15 at 11:23pm

…….and from….

Doris Michol Sippel‎ to New York State Adoptee Equality  July 15 at 9:07am

My article calling for Gov. Cuomo to veto Adoptees’ Bill was published in the Buffalo News! The editor took out key points, so, please, head over to the Comment Section!

Rosemary Starace Excellent article nevertheless.

Doris Michol Sippel Thank you!

Lisa Boone First let me say this. My adoptive family is my family. They have been there for every joyous and difficult life event. I love them with my entire heart.

After reading all of the comments, I had a burning desire to chime in at the web site containing the editorial; however, it would not further a healthy debate on the topic. The bottom line is that two people procreated and the resulting child is factually who they are at birth. We all have a right to that information and everything resulting from that is separate. Adoption will always be an important option, but my identity is mine alone. You gave up that right when you had relations. I know bio mother and one year ago found bio dad via DNA. My blood, my heritage, and my identity were erased at the age of two and replaced with another. Adoption should not erase your original identity, rather adoption should be an acceptance of who you have always been since birth, unless the adoptee chooses to change it when they grow up. I am in MN – closed adoption state. Rant over.  July 16 at 5:00pm

Gretchen Elisabeth Hoffman Catholic charities in St. Paul Minnesota had a good post adoption legal service that put me and my sons adoptive mother together. Not so closed a state

End of these comments…

Now for my own take on what Joan/Doris has said and done here!

Joan said…

My article helping New York State adoptees published! The Buffalo News edited it, omitting keys points. Please add your comments in the Comment Section! Educate the public!

Gert says…Well isn’t that NICE! The editors were at work editing out ‘key points’ of Joan/Doris’ rants. Joan knows better than an editor! She corrected that ‘editing’ in her comments on the News site. But the POINT is that the editorial stuff of the News, has the right to edit OUT what is inappropriate and knowing Joan/Doris she must have had quite a rant! ‘Educate the public’!? This is not how one goes about doing that ‘educating’, particularly when she tells falsehoods, here, and then has her ‘gang of thugs’ go after me on a public news article! This is the common practice that Joan and other adoptees do to ANYONE who is pro-adoption…bad PR work!

Joan said…

I don’t know if there are other comments because I blocked my 2 evil sisters so I don’t know if they commented. I think if you blocked someone, their comments will not show up for you.

Gert says… typical name-calling by Joan in public…character assassination. No wonder the ‘other side’ NEVER gets to tell their story, we have been pre-judged!

Gaye Sherman Tannenbaum/Doris Michol Sippel says…

I think I pissed someone off.

Gaye Sherman Tannenbaum Can you see the replies to comments from people you’ve blocked? You can’t see G’s comment because you blocked her but what about people who reply to her? July 15 at 6:55pm

Doris Michol Sippel Gaye Sherman Tannenbaum Nope. Nothing. I can only see comments not in her her thread by people who are not blocked. Thank you, for whatever you said! If you can copy and paste on a word doc and send it to me, I’d appreciate it.  July 15 at 10:02pm

Gert says…and it appears as if those News editors also were on the job keeping Gaye in her place! Gaye has her own vile tongue that is greased by Joan’s hatred for me and my family.  Joan asked for a copy and pasted doc of what is being said by me! Okay, that’s fine…but I don’t want to hear Joan bitch that HER PRIVACY is being violated! She can’t have her cake and eat it too!

Joan said…Natalie Rose Gert is my eldest sister who found me in 1974. I have been hunted down, harassed, abused sexually and my life threatened, all because Gert and my other sisters feel that I am wrong to be anti-adoption.I have absolutely nothing to do with these women (Ruth is the other one) and have not been in contact for over 35 years. They insert themselves into everything I do online. By what is written on that thread ( someone sent me a copy because I blocked them) I can tell you that my sisters have ruined my life. They have 6 blogs dedicated to libel and slander of me. They did horrible things to me in our reunion. I wrote a memoir, not just about them, but me, my life, my adoptive homelife, my journey, my activism since 1974. Take some time and take a look at my website and judge for yourself. www.forbiddenfamily.com … then ask, who is the sane person? Me or gert? My adoptive mother was afraid of my sisters. I am afraid of them. I cannot stop them, either.

Gert says…the same old tired story filled lies by Joan that she has put into print and spreads where ever she goes! Ruth and I have addressed all these accusations of Joan multiple times on our blogs and in Amazon comments and discussion forums. If we DID all these horrible things, then WHY would we write about them and provide DOCUMENTATION of the REALITY of the episodes? Joan doesn’t recognize anything but her own versions.

The fact that Joan/Doris exposes and exploits us and our family, via her books, escapes her, she sees NOTHING wrong with that and therefore she can’t fathom WHY we object! She is frustrated BECAUSE we will NOT be silent in the face of her exploitation of our family. We are her worst enemy, ones she cannot destroy because she created us.

Because she is NARCISSITIC everything is exaggerated! Any statement that is contrary to hers MUST be false! She can’t handle another’s viewpoint! How does she know how many blogs we have; because she can’t stop herself from following US AROUND! Kathy has one inactive blog. Ruth has on active blog. Gert has two active blogs and one Facebook page; that makes FIVE not six. If you count Amazon that makes six! If Joan would STOP writing about us, we wouldn’t have to contour her! She screams that we libel and slander her, but THINKS NOTHING of what she has done to us and our entire family!

Her memoir is NOT about her life it’s about her PERCEPTION of how everyone hurt her and she wrote it to get EVEN with everyone because she is adopted. Anyone who writes a book and USES the real birth and adoptive family sur-names and discusses ANYTHING about other REAL people WITHOUT permission is exposing and exploiting those people. The ONLY way that Ruth and I can do is to give OUR TRUTH and JUSTICE via writing, to contour, all that Joan has written that is false. On Amazon, we have the right and we do, write reviews, comments and discussion forums. If she can’t handle the truth then she NEEDS to get out of the public arenas. She can’t hide between her BS story line forever; that is WHY she wants to discredit us. We don’t have to discredit her, for she has already done that job very well!

She can’t see that the majority of people that don’t have a VESTED interest in her propaganda agenda can SEE which person is sane or not. Her sense of self-importance is threatened every time I speak ABOUT her involvement in my own adopting! That is why she brings out the ‘my adoptive mother was afraid of my sisters. I am afraid of them. I cannot stop them, either.’ Bullshit! She CAN stop us! ALL she has to do is STOP exploiting us and family with that lying book! Drop it! stop, just stop! If she doesn’t or can’t, well then she HAS TO KEEP HEARING FROM US.

Joan said…Obviously, the older, non-adopted sister (Gert) has to tell the younger, adopted-out sister (me), how to behave. Sorry she dragged into other adoptees, too.

Gert says… This old pathetic line! She has NO RIGHT to interfere with my or anyone else’s PARENTAL RIGHTS. Joan violated me and my family! Oh and look at that pathetic sorry line!

Joan said…Natalie Rose Thank you for understanding. yes, I’ve been at this a very long time. yes, I do posses my OBC, but I do not have the legal right to obtain a copy of it. Gert does not know what she is talking about…if she starts talking about how I interfered in her adoption of her son: this is the real truth: she had a boy and a girl. Her 2nd husband wanted to adopt the 15 year old boy. I said in 1980 that his birth certificate would be changed. They got mad at me and threw me out of their apartment. She is not a birthmother. She is not a foster mother. She is not an adoptive mother, but she will say she is. Twist things to get her way… I’m glad you see how she is. And I do not think I have ever exploited my two families. the book was vetted by an attorney before publication. I have never been sued for libel.

Gert says… How interesting is this…that Joan must say BEFORE I said anything online…(‘if she starts talking about how I interfered in her adoption of her son: this is the real truth’) Joan KNOWS what the truth is and she HAS TO tell her version BEFORE I CAN!

Yep Joan has the truth! She was there when I adopted my son, she was present with the lawyer and the signing of the documents…WRONG! She doesn’t know the TRUTH of anything; she’s got her story and she’s sticking with it!

Both my children were to BE ADOPTED by second husband! BUT, because they were both over the age of 14 they had to GIVE THEIR PERMISSION to be adopted. My daughter did NOT want to be adopted, therefore she wasn’t! I did kick Joan out of my home, AFTER she called me an unfit mother for adopting and NOT caring about the birth certificate! Joan can NOT see that she did anything wrong. When I forbade her contact with my children she called false child abuse upon us.

In adopting one’s OWN blood child, there are three pieces of papers for the birth mother to sign. Joan was NOT THERE.

I AM the birth mother and I had to sign to GIVE AWAY my child into adoption. Then I became the FOSTER MOTHER and signed to TAKE CARE of said child I just gave up. Then I became the ADOPTIVE mother and signed to TAKE CARE of said child whose name was CHANGED.

Joan’s book may have been vetted BUT once the birth family presented DOCUMENTATION the publisher’s lawyers DEEMED that Joan VIOLATED THE CONTRACT. That is why the book was pulled by Trafford Publishers and why she had to SELF publish.

Correct she’s never been sued for anything, because she doesn’t have anything to take from. That is why we WRITE.

Joan said…

Natalie Rose I hope you find peace in your journey as a first mother.

Gert says…Ahh isn’t that sweet?!! Joan offers peace to someone she doesn’t know and yet has NO peace to offer to her victims! Joan is living the life she created for herself.

end

I don’t even know what to say — it’s the same old story – Joan/Doris just lies her ass off.

gertmcqueen 

July 30, 2017 at 1:22 pm

Anyone who DOESN’T know that Joan/Doris lies hasn’t been paying attention or doesn’t care to know or believes what they want to believe, like Joan/Doris herself! We on the other hand, who first hand what the truth is and HOW she lies! Joan believes her own BULLSHIT and that is WHY she is a loser, personally and as a activist for adoption reform…NO ONE takes her seriously, she is totally INEFFECTUAL and everyone knows that except her and her friends.

1 of 2; Op-ed article, by Joan M Wheeler/Doris M Sippel, gets insider attention from Gert McQueen! Part one of two

There’s always another side of any story!

DISCLAIMER…Whenever one writes a public article, on any Internet site, and/or comments on a public article, or writes a comment on a PUBLIC Facebook account that is plainly labeled as a PUBLIC post, there is NO EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY. That being said, the commentators on this, on-line Buffalo News story, have given their ‘right’ to privacy away and publishing their names here, on a public blog, is PART and PARCEL of the News story.

http://buffalonews.com/2017/07/14/another-voice-cuomo-must-veto-flawed-adoptee-bill/

“Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself.”

― Native American Proverb

People who live in glass houses should not throw stones, particularly Joan/Doris! Her past deeds and words will ALWAYS follow her, regardless whether or not any of her friends care to acknowledge that, MANY OTHERS read the same news stories and have minds of their own to determine whether or not Joan/Doris is what she says she is!

Be sure to see part two here… 2 of 2; Op-ed article, by Joan M Wheeler/Doris M Sippel, gets insider attention from Gert McQueen! Part two of two.

The following is all self-explanatory. Most of the comments are dated from July 14 to July 16, 2017, but do check the following link to see all the comments and their dates.

http://buffalonews.com/2017/07/14/another-voice-cuomo-must-veto-flawed-adoptee-bill/

Another Voice: Cuomo must veto flawed adoptee bill

By Another Voice | Published July 14, 2017 | Updated July 14, 2017

By Doris Michol Sippel

Even though I legally reclaimed my name of birth, New York State sealed my birth certificate and won’t give it back. Since 1935, birth certificates of adopted people in New York State are revoked, sealed and replaced.

Legislation to allow access to sealed records recently passed the Assembly and Senate. But adoptees are asking Gov. Andrew Cuomo to veto the “Adoptee Bill of Rights.” That’s because amendments will allow parents who signed away their parental rights to redact their names from the sealed record, or prevent the release altogether. Legislators believe identities of unmarried mothers must be protected. But no promise of confidentiality was ever made.

Signed relinquishment removes all parental rights. Whether signed willingly, under duress or terminated involuntarily, parental rights to the child are removed, but the child’s right to the birth certificate remains. After relinquishment, if the child is never adopted and ages out of foster care, that person maintains the birth certificate for life – without the relinquishing parents’ consent or power to redact their names. Therefore, concern over adoptees discovering the identities of their mothers and fathers is pointless.

A child’s name and parents’ names are removed from the official birth record only upon adoption. The child is renamed on the new “birth” certificate and the names of the legal parents replace the names of natural parents. Once adopted, the children lose the right to their own birth certificate.

The amended Adoptee Bill of Rights would give all parents who signed away their parental rights decades ago the new right to redact their names on their adopted-out daughter or son’s birth certificate, or prevent the document’s release. These are powers that other parents do not have. No parent has the right to redact his or her name from a child’s birth certificate. All children become autonomous adults at the age of majority. Adoptees cease to be under natural parent control when the surrender agreement is signed. Adoptees gain the right to be autonomous adults when we reach the age of majority; our adoptive parents are relieved of their parental rights when we become legal adults.

The law would force adoptees, via state confidential intermediaries, to seek permission from their natural parents to obtain a copy of their sealed birth certificate. Adoptees who were removed from abusive parents will be forced to abide by parental authority from the very parents whose rights were involuntarily terminated. The final decision will be made by a judge whether or not adoptees can have that sealed document.

The governor must veto this bill, then advance simpler access legislation: the “New York Bill of Adoptee Rights.” Repealing the 1935 sealed records law, however, would completely restore adoptees’ civil rights to birth certificates by mandating reality-based documentation of birth. Equality under the law to non-adopted people is the goal.

Doris Michol Sippel, formerly known as Joan Wheeler, is the author of “Forbidden Family: An Adopted Woman’s Struggle for Identity.”

NOW THE COMMENTS…

Misti Stilipec

In the post 9/11 world, why is any government agency refusing to hand over legit identification documents to any citizen? Let me remind you that it is a felony to fly under an assumed name. What’s sad is that the Obama birthers have been ridiculed, but they are absolutley correct: If Obama was an adoptee, then he could have been born outside the US and lied to about it. It is possible an adoptee was born outside the US and doesn’t know that he is lying to say he was born in the US. It is possible for an adoptee to want to grow up and become president and not be able to show his OBC even if he wanted to. For matters of national security, it only begs the question why judges, congress members and adoption groups are so keen in hiding birth certificates and why their lobby has become stronger than our government’s need for transparency and security.

We also know that human trafficking does happen. There is no way to establish that any of these children coming into the US are actually orphans and were not trafficked when there is such a veil of secrecy sorrounding adoption documents. Once again the adoption lobby has made itself more powerful that our government’s ability to fight international crime. Be sure to continue to blame Mexico for undocumented immigrants without ever asking or receiving a number for officially how many children enter the US each year due to adoption, adoption related crime and human trafficking. Please remember the ability for any police agency to fight trafficking depends on their ability to accurately determine if a child was legally adopted or if the human trafficker obtained fraudulent documents. We all know if asked, a sex trafficker is going to tell you that the child was born to them or else legally adopted. The standard police officer on the street is not equipped to determine if a pedophile is lying about a child in his home with fraudulent documents in his hands. For national security and humanitarian reasons, there needs to be transparency in adoption.

We also know that anti-abortion foes say that the fetus deserves to live a “life like ours.” They also claim that they are speaking for “those who have no voice.” Here are the children that were not aborted. Please notice that they are adults and are speaking and yet too many Congressmembers are turning a blind eye and deaf ear. And yet the press largely does not cover this issue, and when they do, they quote adoption lawyers who make adoption law, and not the children who have no say in those laws. Therefore, adoption law is non-representational government as the adoptees have no say in the law when they were born, and they are not beling allowed as adults to reform the law for the future. If you want these fetuses to have a voice then why are you asking them to shut up once they become adults? In order to have a life like ours, their full human and civil rights must be honored—otherwise you have only honored their humanity up to the moment they were born, only to tell them that you don’t feel they are human after they were born.

Christians are also misquoting Jeremiah 1:5 in order to fight abortion. The full quote is this: “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.” According the Bible you quote to claim that God commands abortion is a sin, is also a command from God to see these children as prophets. By turning a blind eye to adult adoptees, per your own arguments about abortion then, this would mean that you are ignoring the command of God by refusing to listen to what they have to say.

Doris Michol Sippel

You raise excellent points. Thank you for commenting. We can only hope that our words reach those in power. And perhaps your words will also help to educate, to change the minds of those you address.
Adoptees are ignored by society, very true.

There is only one point that I can add something to: “There is no way to establish that any of these children coming into the US are actually orphans…” It is very imporant to say that even orphans should have the right to their own birth certificates. All orphans were conceived and born to a mother and a father. Just because one of both parents have died does not mean that the orphan should be renamed, issued a new birth certificate which states that this orphan has bee born to strangers who were not invovled in this child’s conception and birth.

This practice of issued new birth certifcates upon adoption must be stopped. Unrestricted access to our sealed birth certificates will give adoptees some ansers, yes, but it will not completely restore our civil rights to our revoked and sealed birth certifcates.

I am a half orphan, by the way, born to a mother who died three months after my birth. That facts of my birth were written as verifyable medical facts through corraborating hosptial records and DNA. There is absolutely no reason why New York State should have revoked and sealed my birth certificate. And no reason to have revoked and sealed hte birth certificates of all other adoptees. This is more than a state problem. This is a USA federal goverment, as you also point out, and a world wide problem. We are the ones speaking out to change the world for the better for an underclass of people.

Kimberly S. Worden-Poledna

I was relinquished at birth and then adopted.
Under the US Consitution’s 14th Amendment, the Equal Protection Clause states that certain groups of people cannot be put aside and treated differently under the law than their peers.

This bill being considered by NYS does just that. Any other citizen born in Buffalo, NY can go the the vital statistics office and get their factual birth certificate – the legal record of their birth. Denying that right to me (and other adopted adults) is a violation of our rights guaranteed by the United States of America! Please consider this, Governer Cuomo, before signing this bill and restore our rights and human dignity. Thank you.

Doris Michol Sippel

Yes, this bill violates the 14th Amendment.
More importantly, the laws that were written and passed in 1935 in New York State (and in every state in the USA) that stole our birth certificates also violate the 14th Amendment because all adopted people are, indeed, treated differently that other American citizens. Non-adopted people are not subject to government annulment and falsification of their birth certificates.

Kimberly S. Worden-Poledna

Doris Michol Sippel Yes, the govenor. I pray, will veto the bill and ask lawmakers to send through the real equal rights bill introduced without discrimination toward adopted people.
If original families need to fear (us) adopted individuals perhaps we should all be locked up..

Gert Mcqueen

Adoption has been with humanity from our beginnings and it is NOT going away any time soon regardless of those in anti-adoption factions, as this author is. Certainly adoption takes many forms and has many problems; what part of human interactions is without forms and problems.

Certainly, everyone should have their heritage and medical information available to them, but what is the cost…ahh now, that’s what is at the heart of this ‘bill’. I don’t have ‘the answer’ as to how to fix the problems. I can’t think of any institution that man, as in human being, has created to help one another or to solve our social circumstances that is without flaws or that is entered into with flawed thinking or flawed people, think marriage…is it always perfect? That is the nature of humans and our social constructions.

What I find most disturbing about this author’s ‘activism’ and WHY serious thought must be used, by Gov. Cuomo, and others, about this bill is that this author is EXPOSING her adoptive parents, her birth parents, her siblings, her extended family members of both families and presenting FALSE information about them, her adoption, and EXPLOITING THEM as well!

Be it KNOWN that this book, that the author promotes…Forbidden Family: An Adopted Woman’s Struggle for Identity, is only the THIRD edition of the same falsehoods written by this author AGAINST myself, my family, my PARENTS. This book is NOT about any form of adoption REFORM, will NOT convince anyone including Gov. Cuomo, to changes the laws, but will show the DANGERS that are and can continue to be, to family members who DO NOT want to be exposed or exploited by adoptees who just can’t stand being adopted and CAN’T LET IT GO!
Gov. Cuomo…sign the bill! Don’t allow other families to be exploited!

Gaye Sherman Tannenbaum

For those who are reading this – please note that Gert McQueen has a personal vendetta against the OP. This vendetta is unconnected to the present bill. Any attempts to connect the two should be viewed with suspicion.
To address a specific point – adoption has indeed been around for a very long time but it is only recently that the government has taken it upon themselves to officially revise the truth in the form of amended birth records. The fact that such revision is accompanied by laws which prohibit the person whose history has been “revised” from accessing the original document just compounds the injustice. Many adoptees (myself and the OP included) already know the names of their biological parents yet access to the documents that should be ours by right are subject to a judge’s whim and, if this bill is signed by Gov. Cuomo, to the unilateral decision of people who have surrendered or lost all rights with respect to those adoptees.

Gert Mcqueen

Gaye Sherman Tannenbaum Vendetta! No, truth telling! Are NOT contrary opinions valid, for this issue, whatever the reason for them? Suspicion works both ways! My opinion is connected to this bill! The very FACT that the author KNOWS her history is NO reason for exposing and exploiting her families, particularly with falsehoods…but then that IS MY POINT and YOURS! REVISIONIST HISTORY.

Amended birth certificates are NOT the only REVISION that occurs, now is it! That is what I’m saying, just because the author says something does not make it true! There are people out there that do NOT want their HISTORIES revised by their children!

Grace Del Real  Gert Mcqueen, what does any of that have to do with this bill. I don’t know anything about you or the op, but just because there is drama in your family doesn’t give you the right to use that drama to justify the continuation of the denial of adoptees of their rights.
The majority of adoptions today are open because research has shown it is best practice to ensure that adoptees know their history, their background, and most importantly, their extended family. As far as the argument that access to our obc will lead to adoptees showing up on the doorstep of our birth parents and causing disruption, we don’t need our obc for that. We are already showing up on the doorstep. Consumer based DNA tests have forever blown the whole shame based, secret based closed adoption paradigm out of the water forever. This is about equal access to our records. This is about recognizing adult adoptees as adults, not infants needing protection. If our birth parents suffer from shame because of our births, the best step should be to seek professional help, because with or without our records, if the child you gave up wants to find you, chances are good they will.

Gert Mcqueen

Grace Del Real Drama! No such thing! Just reality. Whether an adoptee knows or doesn’t know their parents and family, they do NOT have the right to expose and exploit their parents and family, after the fact. That is what I’m objecting to. If I knew, in 1974, that, that adoptee would destroy MY parents, my family etc. I would never have FOUND HER! No one knows what you will find behind that door!

Certainly NOT all adoptees do that, but this author of this article DOES and that is enough reason for me to OBJECT to this bill. The Governor should SIGN the bill as is, to PROTECT families from being exploited by children like this author, who hate adoption. If you don’t like that, take it up with the author and what she writes against family. HONOR THY MOTHER AND THY FATHER.
I am in favor of open medical records for medical reason if you can’t accept my position that’s too bad I have a RIGHT to my position/opinion!

Kimberly S. Worden-Poledna Gert Mcqueen. Amended birth certificates ARE THE revision.
Birth records are just that, a record surrounding the facts.
Adopted adults did not consent to the revision.

Gert Mcqueen

Kimberly S. Worden-Poledna Just like you, I did NOT make the laws. They are what they are! The act of adopting CHANGES parenthood from birth parents to adoptive parents…that’s the way it works. Those rules are there for many reasons, whether you or I like them! I adopted my son, who gave his permission to be adopted. In my state, at age 14 a child gives their PERMISSION to be adopted. My son DID want his name/parentage CHANGED! His amended birth certificate was CORRECT, for him! NO ADOPTION IS THE SAME.

No child ‘consented’ to a revision! Of course not, they are children, they cannot consent. Of course they grow up and become adults and YES, these laws OUGHT to be adjusted to reflect ADULT adoptees; such as giving OUT HEALTH CONDITIONS. But…NOT all parents want their names etc KNOWN to those children that were placed into adoption for ANY REASON. That’s what I and many others object to having BIRTH PARENTS on adoptee birth certificates, because SOME adoptees expose and exploit the birth parents! Fact!
The author of this OP states that ‘dead people can’t sue and neither can their heirs’! Is that true? I don’t know but I do KNOW that my family, MY PARENTS have been expose, exploited and maligned by this OP and this is something that Gov Cuomo needs to hear.

Liz Prato

My biological parents are both from Buffalo. My bio-mother was sent away to another state to give birth and relinquish me for adoption. I spent my whole life wondering who my descendants are. Who I look like, act like, who “my people” are. If you doubt how powerful and necessary this information is, look at the explosion of geneology softwear like Ancestry, and DNA test kits like 23 & Me. Humans have a fundemental need to know where they come from. It wasn’t until I was 47 that the state I was born in opened adpotion records to adult adoptees. When I saw the name of my biological parents, something wild and free-floating finally settled inside me. Unfortunately, when I made attemtps to contact them–only out of a desire to know where I come from–they both rejected me. My bio-father even leavied legal threats at me–as if I had done something deeply wrong in wanting to know my roots. I wonder: if they lived in a state that gave equal rights to adoptees, might they be more likely to see me as a human, equally deserving of the same knowledge and dignity as anyone else? The fact that New York treats adopttees like second class citizens reinforces that we are less important, less human, than our non-adopted counterparts.

Gert Mcqueen

Liz Here’s some basic FACTS OF LIFE…stuff happens! No one, NO ONE, gets to pick whom they are born to or what their life is! A person is born, stuff happens, you live, you die, that’s it! Social mores come and go and change, what happened in the past may or may not be fair, right or just, but that is what it IS. Same as TODAY, NOTHING is fair and right for EVERYONE…it may be good for you and bad for another…NEVER is it fair FOR ALL. Deal with it!

Yes you should have your history, your ancestry, your medical records and EVEN your parentage! BUT…perhaps PARENTS and SOCIETY don’t agree with you! You make MY CASE! Not every parent wants to know about their children, even those that are ON THE ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE!

There are REASONS WHY adoption records are the way they are! Do I agree with that? NO! But I can certainly UNDERSTAND why the records are SEALED AND SECRET! Not all people are sane, caring, thoughtful and just. My family has been on the receiving end of exposure and exploitation and falsehoods, by an adoptee whom will stop at NOTHING to get a piece of paper that she ALL READY OWNS.

One of main reasons that adoptees are not making progress in getting what they want is BECAUSE of the words and deeds of JUST A FEW misguided adoptees that have CAUSED GREAT HARM TO THEIR FAMILIES. Think about that!

Emm Paul   Gert Mcqueen you have very little understanding of the history or law regarding adoption.
You have stalked the author all over the Internet for years. I think there is some seriously wrong with you if you advocate denying adoptees equality just to spite your sister.

Kimberly S. Worden-Poledna

Anyone who disturbs other people’s lives should be handled by the court of law – if they have been adopted or not.
Your case assumes that all adopted people are insensitive and rude and wish to go around disrupting others lives.
That is practically the definition of prejudice. Forming your view of an entire group of people due to the actions of a few you have experienced.

Gaye Sherman Tannenbaum  For those who don’t know the story – this was not a case of the adoptee contacting the family. The family, her sisters, found and contacted her. Then the relationship went south and this ^^^ is the result.

Gert Mcqueen

Gaye Sherman Tannenbaum The author condemned me for adopting my own son and then violated my parental rights by interfering with my minor children, because I would NOT listen to her about the birth certificate; that is when the ‘relationship’ ended in 1980. Each member of the birth family has also ended relationships with the author due to her continued interfering and then writing falsehood and misrepresentations. People who live in glass houses should NOT throw stones.

Emm Paul  Gert Mcqueen Yet you continue to stalk her all over the Internet. She’s writing about flawed legislation, which, as an advocate, she knows something about. It affects the equal rights of multiple thousands of adults adopted in New York. You, on the other hand, who are not adopted, have decided to make this all about you and only about you.

Gert Mcqueen

Emm Paul I read on the Internet like millions of others! It is her exposing and exploiting of my family in print all over the Internet and in books, it’s not about me, it’s about families being exposed and exploited by adoptees!

Emm Paul

Gert Mcqueen I suspect you don’t care about other families.
And if you wanted her to write kindly about you, perhaps you should have behaved better.
None of this has anything to do with the equal rights of adoptees.

Gert Mcqueen

Emm Paul Ahh oh wise one! Doing onto to me as you have condemned me for doing! You are right, I only care about MY FAMILY, myself, my children, my parents, my siblings, including Joan/Doris. You are again right and correct…I should have behaved better…I should have allowed her to continue to take more from me and my children BEFORE I pulled the plug telling her to take a hike! I should have believed that I was an unfit mother as SHE WHO KNOWS ALL told me I was because I ADOPTED and didn’t give a crap about a FALSE BIRTH CERTIFICATE and allowed her to continue to go behind my back and poison my children. Yes I was wrong, I should have behaved better and allowed SHE WHO KNOWS BEST FOR ALL PARENTS WHO ADOPT to have her will with my children.
And yes, I should NOT be concerned about any of the PAP (potential adoption parents) or any other individuals that CHOOSES to adopt in any matter when SHE WHO IS SO INFORMED ABOUT ADOPTION RIGHTS EQUAL OR UNEQUAL speaks against any form of adoption. Yes oh wise one! You have set me straight…thank you!

End…be sure to see part two of this piece.

Dead people can’t and don’t speak! But Joan M Wheeler/Doris M Sippel continues to exploit our DEAD mother and father!

This crap, of Joan/Doris, is just like ‘what would Jesus say’! Attempting to get a sympathy vote, a ‘oh poor me’ attitude, a cop-out from reality and stupidity.

This isn’t the first time that Joan/Doris has done this…only this time she is using both our parents as a means to influence politicians and law-makers.

If Joan/Doris really BELIEVES in wanting to have her BIRTH parents legally RECOGNIZED on her birth certificate, why did she go and write THREE lying books about our parents? Why did she put in PRINT what she DID to our father and portray him negativity, over and over again? Why did she put in PRINT lies about our mother’s medical conditions? Why did she put in PRINT lies about her birth siblings and extended family members?

Both our parents are DEAD and will NEVER speak to their children again. Knowing Joan/Doris is an atheist, she doesn’t believe in the Christian heaven, or any other religious thought or afterlife, she’ll NEVER met or speak to them when she herself dies.

The worst part is that she CONTINUES to exploit them! She says…

Mom, I do it for you, too. And for Dad. You would want me to, wouldn’t you, Mom?

What f…ing BS! Joan/Doris is nothing up a creep, a lying creep, who can’t ACCEPT her life! She doesn’t do this for Mom and Dad…she does it for her SELF! Because she is selfish, needs attention, and will say and do anything to get that attention. IF, IF, IF she truly was doing this for Mom…WHY does she say ‘wouldn’t you, Mom’? That whole thing stinks of DOUBT. Joan/Doris KNOWS deep in her soul that she is NOT DOING RIGHT.

Perhaps the dead DO talk…if one opens their HEART they could hear the loved one say…STOP IT, MOVE ON, LET US REST IN PEACE. But, Joan/Doris has CLOSED her heart and soul…that is why she is in constant pain…she will NOT accept her LIFE.

Now as to the CURRENT political situation; adoptees are asking New York State Governor Andrew Cuomo to Veto the current bills up for his signature (regressive Mother-May-I Bills A5036B/S4845A). The reason is because to them it is a ‘dirty’ bill, because it doesn’t give the adoptees what they want. Perhaps Governor Cuomo OUGHT TO SIGN THE BILL…NOT veto it. What Joan/Doris is doing is EXACTLY what should NOT be done when adoptees gain their birth parents names…expose and exploit them.

It also seems that Joan/Doris STILL can’t have her cake and eat it too…by changing her name legally BACK to her birth name she STILL has to COMPLY with Vital Statics RULES. What a FOOL! Can you image the mess that will happen when a DEATH certificate for this fool is needed!

Here’s the link to her crap…

https://forbiddenfamily.com/2017/06/30/how-would-my-mother-feel-to-know-new-york-state-erased-her-from-my-birth-certificate/

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